Autism Goes To College
Autism Goes To College
EPISODE 19: NEW for 2022-23 Choosing the right college - researching programs and comparing campus support
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College admissions have changed in some significant ways since the pandemic. Hear important updates from Eric Endlich, a college admissions counselor who works mostly with students on the spectrum. He's got new insights about the relevance of standardized tests now; what colleges are looking for; application and essay strategies and what students on the spectrum should look for when they start applying and visiting schools.
Hey everyone, thanks for joining us for this episode of Autism Goes to College, the podcast for students on the spectrum and everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge, so here are the hacks and insights and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a group of self-advocates, we all graduated, or we're almost there. And you can do this too.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the show, everybody. A few things have changed since we dropped our much listened to episode with Eric Endlit, a college admissions counselor who works mostly with students on the spectrum. So we're updating this episode with some new information. And you can also hear Eric's original insights. Thanks so much for coming back to the show, Eric.
SPEAKER_01My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Eric. It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_02So the pandemic is largely over, knock on wood. Uh the students are back in class in person, and many families with high school seniors are deep in the college application process. And getting into college has changed some in some pretty significant ways since the pandemic. I'm wondering if you can help us break that down. Let's start with standardized testing. What have you seen change with regard to standardized testing?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, as you said, so much has changed with the pandemic. It it can be hard for families to keep up, and standardized testing is no exception. One of the biggest changes with standardized testing is that when the pandemic hit, lots and lots of standardized testing administrations were canceled. Many students couldn't get to the tests. And partly as a result of that, many more colleges went test optional or test free. So now there are upwards of 1,800 institutions across the U.S. that are test optional or test free. So for most students, in many cases, the colleges that they are likely to apply to are not going to require tests, and in some cases won't even look at test scores. So that's that's a big change. There's also other changes afoot. The SAT is moving to a digital platform in the future. And because tests have become optional, there's been a you know kind of a refocus on other things, and many students, particularly students with learning differences who may have struggled with standardized tests, now have that freedom to not submit them, uh, which has really opened things up for a lot of students.
SPEAKER_02And what do you see the schools focusing most on if they're not focusing on standardized tests as much?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's it's some of the same things they always focused on, which is what they call rigor or or the course curriculum. Did you as a student challenge yourself to take the hardest courses available to you that you can do well in? Uh so were you taking more challenging courses? And secondly, how did you do in those courses? What are your grades? So essentially, it's the high school transcript. Um that is, it always has been, um, but even more so remains super important. It's by no means the only thing. I mean, there there are colleges where you can pretty much get admitted just based on your transcript. Um, but many, many colleges are are holistic, meaning that they also take into account essays, letters of recommendation, your extracurricular activities, and a whole bunch of other factors.
SPEAKER_02And neurodiversity, which even just a couple years ago was kind of a new term that a lot of people had never heard before, it's now seems like it's everywhere. And so, with this increased awareness around neurodiversity, specifically in the admissions process, uh how has that changed things from an institutional side that you've seen?
SPEAKER_01Well, not as much as I would like, and that is something I have written some articles on. I would love to see neurodiversity and diversity of abilities incorporated under the definition of diversity. So colleges are frequently looking to build a diverse class of students, students with um that range that represent a range of different backgrounds. But when they are doing that, they're often looking at factors other than neurodiversity. And I'm hoping that over time that becomes more important. That being said, you know, I do see students starting neurodiversity clubs. Uh, you know, at any college, you you typically have the option as a student to create a club if there isn't one. Um and so I'm I'm seeing that pop up more and more. Students are starting neurodiversity clubs. There's uh something called a disability cultural center, which only exists on a handful of campuses, and that's where students gather around disability as an identity, not to get services, but just uh as an identity group and to sponsor events and raise disability awareness and disability pride. And that is also something that in on some campuses students have pushed their administrations to to develop such centers. So that's a small um movement, but I I hope a growing one.
SPEAKER_02And it also seems like more students, more neurodiverse students are more willing to talk about their neurodiversity in their college uh essays, and that it's sort of now from the from the uh admissions folks that we've spoken to, more than ever it's it's now it's seen as as um a way of showcasing kind of uh what you've overcome and in some ways could help the the admissions process. Are you seeing that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have a lot of students who write about it in their essays, and this is a complicated question that comes up very frequently, uh whether it's a good idea, whether it's okay to talk about it. It is by no means required. If a student doesn't want to, they don't have to talk about it. And there's no reason to think across the board that it's either going to help you or hurt you. But if you do write a compelling, inspiring essay about the challenges you've faced and the ways in which you've grown and the ways in which you've um become more resilient or found ways to address those challenges that that could help you, absolutely. And lots of my students, um, for them, it is a key part of their identity, and they want to write about it because they feel like, hey, if if you don't know this about me, you aren't really going to understand me, so I have to share this. So again, totally optional, um, but it is becoming common, and I've seen plenty of students do very well when they talked about it.
SPEAKER_02How about expanded offerings? What's new out there for college students on the spectrum and what types of programs are proving popular and tracking out uh good outcomes?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I I think there's not as much outcome research as we would like. We're seeing a little bit of it. Um I have seen programs where they have tracked, you know, what is the graduation rates for our students who are in the autism support program, what are their GPAs. And in some cases, it's not only been as good as neurotypical students outside of those programs, but sometimes even better. So that support can absolutely make the difference between a student thriving, staying in, graduating, doing well versus not. Uh but in terms of what's new with the pandemic, I think one of the biggest things, as you might imagine, in is virtual offerings. So there are programs around the country, some of them sort of residential programs where students live at the program and attend a nearby college, or companies that do tutoring. And those organizations prior to the pandemic only did in-person services. I can remember talking to a tutoring company prior to the pandemic and saying, hey, do you ever work with students remotely? No, we don't ever do that. It's only in-person. Um, that has shifted dramatically, and some of these programs have spun off completely virtual uh programs that serve students anywhere in the country. So students who previously had to live near a program in order to access the supports now can get services, can get those same supports regardless of where they attend college, regardless of where they live. So that has really opened up more options. And of course, you know, for a lot of students, they feel like, hey, in-person is the gold standard for me. I do better when I'm sitting in the same room with someone that I'm working with. But there are other students who've actually done better in some ways with virtual services where they can be, you know, sitting in the privacy and comfort of their home or their dorm room and accessing services that way. And there have been additional programs coming online, college autism support services, uh support programs coming online. Year by year, I see you know more programs coming along, and that's that's great to see because most colleges don't have those programs, and um some students uh again uh can it can make a big difference for them.
SPEAKER_02Are you seeing in addition to more autism-specific support programs, more um just sort of executive functioning support programs that you know, sort of for an extra fee uh as an add-on thing, um, college students uh who are away from home for the first time perhaps can get some extra coaching?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, that that too. Yeah, I'm I'm seeing more and more executive function coaches, more and more that uh service being offered at colleges or being offered by standalone programs. Um that is becoming more common. Not everybody even knows what that is, uh, but most of the students I work with benefit from some type of academic or executive function coaching to help them manage time, stay organized, get stuff done, and so on.
SPEAKER_02That's really interesting. Yeah, so for me, I I have an update of my own uh this fall. I now have a college freshman at Southern Oregon University, and he's wrapping up his first quarter there. I'm happy to report that he's making friends and loving his classes. So far, so good. I should mention that um I've been impressed with their program, UCAM. He meets with a success coach once a week who helps him with executive functioning and making sure he stays on top of things. So, you know, for for the parents out there going through this with your own neurodiverse kid, I'm right there with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's a great example of a program that not a lot of folks know about. You know, there there are colleges that everyone's heard of, and then there's a handful of programs that that a lot of people have heard of uh that keep coming up again and again, but there are a lot of really good programs out there um that relatively few people have heard of, and that's you know, partly why I do what I do, whether it's putting that list together on the top college consultants website so people can search throughout the country or working with families one-on-one to help match them with the program where their child will thrive.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for those updates, Eric. It's always good to have you back on the show.
SPEAKER_01Same here. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02And with that, here is our original interview with Eric Endlitt. Eric, I have a head bulging with questions for you. I'm so excited to talk to you about this subject. It's of great relevance to me, as I know it is to many of our listeners. Um, but let's uh give folks a little bit of an idea of who you are. You are a psychologist by training, um, but you've been doing uh college consulting now for about five years. How did that happen? How did you come to this niche?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, as you said, uh I'm a clinical psychologist, had worked with teens and adults for a long time, and uh really enjoyed working with teens all along. And my son was diagnosed back in 1999 when he was two and a half. And essentially, you know, sometimes we have a life experience that can change our future forever. Something happens to you that changes the course of your life, and sometimes an event can occur that changes your past. And I've experienced both. The first was when my son was diagnosed, and my wife and I were sitting there with the doctor, and we realized in that instant that our lives, the course of our life was altered. And um, you know, you don't have many moments like that in in your life, but it would it was true. Uh, it really did turn out that way. We became immersed in the autism world, going to conferences, reading books, meeting with specialists, taking our son for various treatments, um, you know, going to different schools, and that really kind of took over our lives quite a bit. So I became something of an autism expert just by virtue of being a parent, really more so than by virtue of being a psychologist. And then about 15 years later, my wife and I were sitting in an autism conference, as we did periodically for our son, and listening to the keynote speaker who was very articulate, interesting, entertaining. Um, she talked about how she had been working in the field for years with folks on the spectrum before she realized that she herself was autistic. And in that moment, as we listened to her, both of us realized that someone else in the family besides our son was on the spectrum, namely me. And uh my wife was kind of nervous to broach the subject. She thought, you know, how's Eric going to react? I don't know if I should bring this up. And fortunately for her, I guess I brought it up and said, you know, listening to that conversation, listening to that talk, I I kind of think I might be autistic too. And she was like, Oh, thank God you brought it up, because I was thinking the same thing. And then in the coming weeks, you know, I continued to explore that and put a great deal of thought and conversation into it and realized it was quite clear and just, you know, had taken a long time to come to that realization. And and so that really changed my past in the sense that I went back and looked at my life in a very different light, which is what happens to folks who are diagnosed later in life. You really see your life in a very different context. And it also changed my future again because um I dove into the autism world even more intently, starting to work with folks on the spectrum as a greater part of my practice, and finding that I had a special interest not only in autism, but also in college, partly as a result of bringing my daughter through the college process. And I just got more and more involved in becoming an educational consultant, and I loved it so much. I closed my psychotherapy practice, and now I do full-time college admissions consulting with students on the spectrum and students with other kinds of learning differences and emotional challenges.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's that's fascinating. I I relate to that on so many levels. I mean, my wife and I went through a similar process with our son and uh became sort of armchair experts ourselves. And my son has a lot of uh sensory issues and and ADD, and it wasn't only after watching the ways he struggled and the things that helped that I realized that I had some sensory issues and ADD. So I was a uh diagnosed as an adult as well uh in that way. So I so I completely relate to what you're saying. I'm curious when you decided to get into the college consulting, was it partly because nobody else was doing college consulting for this community or nobody was doing it well, or or how crowded is this space?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, another piece of it that I didn't mention was that as a therapist, I had seen some of my teen clients go off to college and have an unsuccessful experience. That is, they didn't even make it through their freshman year. They were back at home before the first year was over. And, you know, I thought this this is so sad, there's got to be a better way. And I came to discover as I trained as an educational consultant, I didn't just, you know, wake up and do it. I went through training and um extensive training, that um there are lots of support programs out there. There are lots of things that families can do to help prepare their students for college and go to a college where they're gonna get the support they need and have a more successful experience. And if students don't make it through college, it's a huge expenditure of time and money, um, but it's also a huge cost emotionally for students to essentially drop out of college while they see their peers continue on and have a successful experience and then kind of feel like a failure and wonder what went wrong. So I really didn't want to see that happen again. You know, I think of it as sort of like measure twice, cut once, you know, figure out what kind of supports you need, when you're ready for college, what is the best college for you, and go there and have a successful experience rather than just kind of do it haphazardly and have an unsuccessful experience.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell And when students leave high school, a lot of them have been relying on an IEP or a 504, which has kind of guaranteed them the supports they need in high school. What should parents look for in college support programs?
SPEAKER_01The landscape changes very much after leaving high school. Um the IEP or 504 does not carry over. Once the child accepts their high school diploma, special education ends. Some students choose not to accept the diploma and stay in the school district for beyond high school, but that's that's a different pathway. But once they accept their diploma, they are out of the school system, their IEP is over, their 504 is over, and they kind of start fresh in college. Now that being said, there are lots of accommodations available in college and potentially supports and services if families choose to seek them out and students choose to avail themselves of the services. But it isn't automatic. It in the the onus shifts from the school district to the student. So when the student's in college, it's really on them to disclose their disability, to seek accommodations, to get those accommodations applied, um, going from professor to professor. So nothing happens automatically. So students have to learn to self-advocate while they're in high school. If they don't learn those skills, uh all of this could sort of fall apart when they go to college. And families also have to present the college with adequate documentation. You can't just show up and say, hey, I had an IEP in high school, you know, I want all this stuff in college. You have to have the proper documentation, you have to have a conversation with the disabilities office to line up those accommodations. And accommodations are not the same as services or modifications. Uh I don't want to go dive too much into the weeds or jump too far ahead, but you know, getting an accommodation like extra time on tests is is not the same as getting special help or coaching or guidance, which might be available.
SPEAKER_02Right. And so when when a when when families first come to you, I know one of the big things on their mind is is should they disclose their diagnosis in their essay? Should they disclose immediately to the school? What is your stance on disclosure? Should everyone do it all the time, or are there certain situations where where that's not a good idea?
SPEAKER_01Like a lot of things, the answer is it depends. So I would not give a blanket answer for for all students, that all students should or shouldn't. But but I'll give sort of a a short version, which is that if there's something on the college application that needs explaining, then the diagnosis might be helpful as part of the explanation. In other words, if a student changes schools because their needs aren't being met in the middle of high school, and I've seen that happen a few times, or let's say a student who also has ADHD, who goes on medication in the middle of high school and their grades get much better because they've they're finally getting their ADHD treated, or you know, conversely, if they make a medication change that that is not conducive to better functioning and their grades go down, any sort of change that the College Admissions Committee might scratch their heads about would be helpful for a student to say, hey, here's the situation. This is why you're seeing what you're seeing. If that is not the case, if it's a fairly straightforward transcript and application, then the student by no means is obligated to disclose. They don't have to disclose. If they choose to, it's probably not going to help them or hurt them in general. I'm not saying never, but in general, it shouldn't make a difference one way or another with their admissions prospects. However, some students choose to disclose because it's an important part of their identity. And I've had more than one autistic student who chose to write about it on their essays because it wasn't really an a central part of who they were. And they had very good outcomes as far as being accepted to colleges and getting scholarships.
SPEAKER_02I have talked to one uh professor who sits on the admissions council for his school say that, you know, students are taken within the context of where they come from, and that means socioeconomic things, that means a lot of things, but neurodiversity was a consideration that he he said that he would look for, especially if it was in the context of what a young adult had overcome to get to where they were. So it's interesting to hear you say that uh that it's not always recommended. I I suppose that a lot of students who um are looking at college as a fresh start maybe don't want to start that process by disclosing um their diagnosis.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, unfortunately, most students with learning differences don't disclose it in college. And so, of course, if you don't disclose it, you don't get any accommodations. And that doesn't always end up well. They have much lower rates of graduation. So once a student is admitted and commits to a college, that's a whole different question. We were talking about disclosing in the application process, which is totally fine, but not necessary. Once a student says, okay, I've chosen this college, I'm putting down a deposit, this is where I'm going in the fall, absolutely, in my opinion, they should disclose, they should reconnect with the Disability Services Office, which they should have already been talking with in the college search process, get their accommodations lined up, figure out what services and supports they need, get everything in place. For students who have those needs, of course. I'm not suggesting that all students on the spectrum need accommodations in college or need additional services. I don't want to generalize, you know, as they say, you've met one person with autism, yep, one person with autism. But for those who who do have those needs, which is uh many students, they should absolutely get the ball rolling once they've made their decision. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02So when, you know, as as I approach college with my son and and and some of what I learned making the film, it it seems like the landscape for programs uh specifically tailored to students on the spectrum in college changes minute by minute. These uh call it seems like programs are popping up all over the place. Uh for example, at Cal State Long Beach, they have something called the Life Project, but they also just added a peer mentor component to that that wasn't there before. And now that peer mentor program seems to be sort of uh being picked up by other universities around Southern California. There's a lot to sort out, and it's hard to get real-time information. In your mind, first of all, how are parents supposed to navigate that? And are most of these programs that are showing up similar? And what key differences should people look for?
SPEAKER_01So um I've tried to make that easier for parents by doing the legwork myself, by doing the research, and creating an extensive list of autism support programs or what I call autism-friendly colleges on my website, Topcollege Consultants.com. So families can see the programs and I've listed, you know, where they're located, and most important, maybe not most importantly, but one of the important things I put on there is the cost of the program. You know, it's important to realize that many of these programs carry an additional cost. It's not necessarily included with your tuition. Um some of them don't, though. So that's, I think, you know, very useful for families to know. Hey, this program doesn't have an extra fee. And I list what the components of the program are. So I prefer to be more inclusive and list colleges that have any sort of program and let families decide you know which ones are right for them. Some lists that you'll find online are more restrictive, but you know, if there is a club or a support group at a college or a mentoring program, then I put that out there. And if a family decides, you know, that's not enough, that's fine. They can choose a program that has a more robust suite of services. Many of them have professional coaches who are meeting with the student every week, academic coaches, helping with what we call executive functioning, organization time management, help making sure students stay on top of their schoolwork. So that's a fairly common component. Another one is, as you said, mentoring that's sometimes a peer mentor, might be an upperclassman, or might be someone who's been in the autism program themselves and is you know a year or two ahead and kind of knows the ropes in college. Uh I think those mentors can be a wonderful service for students, helping kind of pave the way, bring them to clubs, make help them feel more comfortable navigating college because they they've sort of blazed the trail already. And then there's a variety of other components of these programs. They may have social events like a pizza night or a movie night, they may have social skills workshops, they may have uh components helping you with career skills, like interviewing skills, which is often an important skill for students on the spectrum to be working on. They might help with internships, so there's a whole bunch of different things, life skills, uh independent living skills. But you have to look at each program on a case-by-case basis and compare that to what does this student need? You can't generalize and say, oh, the students on the spectrum, therefore they're going to need social skills help. Well, maybe yes, maybe no. Some autistic students are extroverted and have lots of friends. Some of them are pretty good with executive function and can manage their schoolwork independently. So, as I said, you you you know you can't just assume one blanket program or approach for all students.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Well, that makes a lot of sense. And I'm glad you brought up cost for some of these programs, which leads me to the question about private versus public schools. Where are the most resources and does it really matter? Is there a delineation between those two categories?
SPEAKER_01So private versus public colleges or universities, there are some key differences, but I wouldn't generalize across the board as far as meeting the needs of autistic students. So there are public universities with very solid autism support programs. Again, they're all listed on my website, so you can, you know, make your own comparisons. And there are private colleges that have some great programs. But private and public colleges are different in general, not specifically around the autism support, in the sense that you tend to have smaller classes at private colleges. There tends to be a different faculty-student ratio. And if it's a big public university where there are also graduate programs and a student wants to form close relationships with professors and possibly do research as an undergraduate, sometimes that's going to be easier in a private college where you're not competing with doctoral students that are funded, that are tied to a grant that a professor is working on. So there are some ways in which uh the private school experience might be a better fit for some students. On the other hand, a lot of students want that big school experience with big sports and lots of majors and lots of clubs, so the larger schools have their advantages too. And of course, you know, on paper, public universities in-state universities appear to be less expensive. Um that isn't always the case once you've accounted for financial aid. That's a whole other topic. Um, but you know, in general, they have that cost advantage.
SPEAKER_02And some schools have well-established programs, like one of the first ones we ever heard of was the SALT program at University of Arizona. Others don't, but because of their relative size or reputation as being kind of a close-knit community, might be a good fit. How do you talk to parents about those differences and schools that might be an unlikely but ultimately a good fit?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, when I work with families, I'm taking into account all of the families' needs, and that includes how far from home it's okay for the student to be, how much they can afford to spend on college, what the student wants to study, what kind of vibe or culture they want to be in, and many other factors. I want to distinguish between academic support programs and autism support programs. So you mentioned the SALT program at Arizona, very well-known, well-respected program. Uh, but that's an academic or learning support program for students with learning differences, including autism. So it's not as specifically an autism program. They have students with ADHD, dyslexia, other learning differences. Um the difference is with an autism support program that is specifically for students on the spectrum, there tends to be a social component as well. And there tends to be more, the staff there, you know, are people who've been working with autistic students all along, and they are addressing their needs more specifically with, as I said, like social events, social skills, workshops, and other things that autistic students might need that not all other students would need. So there's that. And then in addition, sometimes students want to go to a particular college for a variety of reasons, maybe because it's close to home or their parents went there, or they they love the academics there. And maybe that school doesn't have an autism support program. What do you do if they still have support needs? Well, you can hire people or programs externally. You can if if the main need that the student has is executive function, someone to help them, you know, manage their time and stay on track with schoolwork, they can pay for that and and hire someone to work with them virtually who doesn't happen to work at the college. And there are a couple of programs that are really pretty robust and and comprehensive that will work with students in any college. So again, sort of a virtual program, which then wouldn't restrict students from to going to colleges that have autism support programs. And then one other scenario I want to mention, which is a residential program. So some of the students who have the highest support needs, who really could use more hands-on around-the-clock help. Um, there are some programs that are residential where the student lives not in the college dorm, but in a nearby program and attends a college that happens to be located in the area. And therefore they they have staff on site where they're living who are coaching them through getting along with roommates and learning to cook and learning to manage money and you know getting up on time and all the other life skills they need, more much more so than they would get if they were living in the residence hall. So that that's another option.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Would that be a program like uh I've heard of a program called uh College Living Experience or College Exp something like that?
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, CLE. CLE, CIP is another one. Both of them have locations across the country. There's Mansfield Hall, which has three locations, um, you know, a handful of other programs along those lines. That's really interesting. You know, a significant jump in cost, so not all families can afford to pay for a program like that and college at the same time. But you know, for those who have those needs and have the ability to pay, it can make the difference between being able to go to college and not being able to go.
SPEAKER_02And in our film, we the five students that we followed all were part of degree granting programs at four-year universities. But we have an upcoming episode where we're going to be looking at more of an autism-specific certificate program. How do you help parents decide if a degree granting program or a certificate program is best for their child?
SPEAKER_01Sure, that's a great point. It comes down typically to whether the student is college capable or not, whether the student can handle college-level academics. And for students who have intellectual disability who maybe would not be able to manage the content of a college curriculum, some of them still want to go to college. Some of them see other kids graduating high school, going off to college, doing all this fun stuff, and it sounds great to them and they they want to have share in that experience, but maybe they're not capable, uh and and these are often students who didn't earn a high school diploma. Maybe they got a an equivalency or a certificate in high school. If they're not capable of robust, rigorous high school academics, there's a good chance they're not going to be able to handle even more rigorous college-level academics. But as you alluded to, there are some non-degree certificate programs located in colleges throughout the country. They are well cataloged on a website called Think College, thinkcollege.net. And that's a great option for students who want to develop some career skills, some life skills, some independent living, have some college type fun, but maybe not handle the rigorous academics. And in some cases, if for students who are covered under state agencies like uh vocal rehab, vocational rehabilitation, or other state agencies, developmental disabilities agencies, that some of those programs could be funded where the family wouldn't have to pay for them. If the family has to pay out of pocket, they tend to be fairly expensive. But there are a number of situations where they're actually covered by state funds. So that's uh that's a cool opportunity. I don't typically work with those families. I'm usually working with college-capable students who are going off to earn a four-year degree like their peers. But I I get calls of from families of all kinds and I steer them to the, you know, the proper resources if if they're not a good fit for me.
SPEAKER_02I'm curious, some of the one of the professionals that we interviewed in our film at Cal State Long Beach talked about some of the topics that came up over and over again from her students in the program. And some of them were kind of surprising, uh, that were issues for students that that maybe their families hadn't anticipated or even the professionals there hadn't anticipated, one of them being food, that students were sort of overwhelmed by just the quantity of choices for what to eat, and they kind of got overwhelmed and didn't know how to make a good choice. So that's sort of the tip for my question, which is what do you see parents most worried about that when they get to college is maybe not a big challenge? And what are the the frequent challenges that maybe they don't anticipate?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, well, I think the things that families are worried about include things like students being far from home and what if they need to come home, what if they run into trouble. Um they also worry about the child getting into the college in the first place, making friends, some of the same things that they've struggled with in high school. You know, the food doesn't surprise me. Many, most of us on the spectrum have some sort of sensory sensitivity, and there there's so many aspects of a college that can be overwhelming from a sensory standpoint, whether it's the noise in the residence halls or the smells in the dining halls. And I think that that's a good reason for students to do a tour before they make a decision. That's obviously been tricky with the pandemic, and sometimes it's tricky because the college is located far from the student's home and they didn't pick it by visiting. But if if families have a chance to do an in-person tour before that final decision, then they can potentially spot any trouble spots and if not change their mind about college, maybe come up with a game plan so that they've headed some of those problems off because there's so many things that change. There's such a big step up in independence when students go to college that you don't want to add any extra challenges or stresses that could be avoided. If they're in an autism support program, they're going to be be meeting with staff who can help them brainstorm about that. I mean, ultimately, I'd love to see colleges be more autism-friendly across the board. And there is an organization in Ireland that's working on that, and they've they've certified one or one university in Ireland as being autism-friendly, where the whole university has made efforts to really accommodate the needs of students on the spectrum. But I think that's a that's a long way off. So, you know, for now we have to rely on families choosing the environments that are going to be most successful for their kids.
SPEAKER_02And this is a question that uh is as relevant to neurotypical students as as autistic students. But I'm wondering for parents who have how do you help parents strike the balance between maintaining high expectations or high aspirations for their child in terms of what college they go to, what kind of program, what kind of degree they get, and what might be realistic for their child's potential?
SPEAKER_01Well, that's really an issue that that any family could struggle with, not just uh families of autistic students. There's a lot of hype. Some of this comes from the media, some of it comes from the colleges that the parents might have gone to or that their peers might have gone to. There's a lot of focus, unfortunately, on prestige or on college rankings, on what is supposedly the best colleges based on rankings or famous names. And that's what a lot of people's ideas about college come from. And that's what a lot of the disproportionate media coverage is about, those 50 most selective colleges in out of 4,000 in the country. And that represents, you know, maybe 3% of all students, but well over 95% of students are going to colleges that are much less selective, much less intense and intensely competitive, which is not to say that they're not as good. They're just a different breed of college. And so I try to educate families about what all the colleges have to offer and look at all the factors, not just, you know, what's the famous name. Because, you know, it may be exciting if your kid gets into an Ivy League college or equally famous college to put that sticker on the car or to put that on social media and brag about it to your friends. But after that initial excitement, you know that your kid's gonna be there for four years or or in some cases more than four years. It has to be a good fit or they won't get through and graduate, no matter how great the name is of the college. Um and in fact, if it's a more sort of competitive cutthroat environment, it might act they might actually be less likely to graduate. You know, you were alluding earlier to some colleges that might be sort of smaller, more nurturing. Sometimes that's true for religious colleges. You want to look for that environment that's gonna be very supportive. May or may not have an autism support program, but you want it to be an environment where the student's gonna feel comfortable, where they're gonna make friends. You've got to look at all the factors, not just the name. And then, of course, things like I said before, what does the student want to study? It's not, you know, some students have very specific majors that they have in mind. You know, it might be chemical engineering, it might be fashion design, might be game design. That's not gonna be offered at every single school. And and some of the best colleges for certain majors are are lesser-known colleges, but they're the best college for that major. So just because it's you know supposedly a really great college doesn't mean it's the best college for what you want to study.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's a great point. And and for listeners of this episode, this process may seem quite overwhelming. So where should parents and students start this process if they want to do something, say tomorrow, to get this project rolling?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Well, that's you know, that's another reason I became a consultant and and having the background as a clinical psychologist and a therapist, I'm very comfortable in dealing with students and parents' anxiety. And pretty much all families have some anxiety about this process. We're anxious when we confront the unknown, when we don't have we can't control or predict what's going to happen. We don't control the outcome of college admissions. You throw your hat in the ring and you hope you get in, and you don't know for sure if you're gonna like it or if it's the best choice. So all of that uncertainty causes families to be anxious. But you can't eliminate that uncertainty from college admissions or from life in general. You have to learn skills to tolerate and manage the uncertainty. So I help families deal with those feelings, and you know, some of that is through information and and which can be very reassuring to see that hey, lots of colleges have higher acceptance rates and still have really good opportunities. You know, most kids have access to a high school counselor at their high school, so that is certainly one place to start. Those folks are very trained and dedicated, and that's what they do, and they are there to help kids through the college process as well. Sometimes families go and hire a private consultant such as myself because they want more hands-on attention, you know, whereas those counselors are typically dealing with several hundred students on their caseload. You know, I'm only dealing with a dozen or so students, and so I can I can meet with them every week and walk them through the essays and the requirements and everything else. Plus, you know, I I'm focused on the autism landscape, and those high school counselors can't afford to be experts on on everything.
SPEAKER_02And just to just to reiterate what you said earlier, this directory that you have that lists all the support programs around the country on your website is free for people to use. They don't have to be a client of yours. It's at your website, topcollegeconsultants.com, correct?
SPEAKER_01Correct. Yeah. I also have a bunch of other resources, recorded webinars on college readiness, articles on transition to college for students on the spectrum, and all of that material is just there for the taking. You don't have to give me your email address. You can just go to my website and get all of that material. You know, I understand also that not all families choose to or can afford to hire a consultant, so I try to make lots of information available free.
SPEAKER_02And what and just on a personal note, what was your college experience like?
SPEAKER_01I went to uh I actually grew up in California, where where you're based, and I went to UC Berkeley, which is a very large public university, and it seemed Like a no-brainer to me. It was a very well-respected college and it was essentially free at that time for California residents. And it was also where my friends were going. So it just made a lot of sense to me. You know, in retrospect, probably not the best fit for someone like me to be in a big public university where you're sort of uh, you know, a number, as they say, kind of anonymous, made it harder to connect with professors and make friends and find, you know, develop a social network. Fortunately, I already had friends going there, so I had a bit of a head start. But, you know, if I could do it over, I probably would pick a different kind of college.
SPEAKER_02Well, Eric, thank you so much for your time. This has been really enlightening. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening. If you found this information helpful, one thing you can do right now to help us out is to give us a star rating and write a quick review on the Autism Goes to College podcast on Apple Podcasts and help us spread the word to parents and professionals by posting about us to your social media, or to your Facebook groups, or by reposting our Instagram and Facebook content. You can find us at Autism Goes to College on all of the social media platforms. And if you have feedback or want to send us ideas for topics and guests, send those along too. We are at autismgoes to college at gmail.com or through our website. To see the documentary film Autism Goes to College, you can find a rental link on our homepage.
SPEAKER_00Hey, thanks for listening to Autism Goes to College. We'd love to hear from you about what you'd like to hear more about. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at Autism Goes to College. Hit us up with your thoughts, tell us what's going on on your campus and in your college life. To see the documentary film or set up a screening, check out our website at autism goes to college.org.