Autism Goes To College
Autism Goes To College
EPISODE 27: Your professors are learning more about students on the spectrum - changes in teaching that students actually felt
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Aubry Mintz teaches animation at Cal State Long Beach. He's great at supporting neurodiverse students, and if you've seen the documentary, Autism Goes to College, his voice and approach in this ep will be familiar. Among his colleagues, Aubry's been advocating for more awareness of how to best support neurodiverse students for years. Now he shares how his campus has grown its services, broadened approaches, and gone further to encourage every faculty member to have conversations with students about what would be helpful. As Aubry says, it's not all about pointing people towards the students' services office. It's about what teachers can do in their classrooms by getting to know their students better.
Now that I'm generally enjoying my social life at Hamilton, I'm more incentivized to actually be social.
SPEAKER_05Having autism isn't something that should prevent people from having a successful college experience. It takes work.
SPEAKER_00Join clubs, find groups, find your people, find ways to fit in, see a peer mentor, see somebody who can help you get involved on campus.
SPEAKER_04There are a lot of black children on the spectrum who also death. She's not the first one.
SPEAKER_03I researched all of the majors and then I eliminated the ones that sounded not interesting to me. So then I change it to chemical engineering to work for chemistry. Then I took an environmental science class and I'm like, I think environmental issues are really important and I'm really passionate about sustainability and stuff. So then I change it to finally environmental engineering.
SPEAKER_07Especially in a college town like OutdoorDash. Like, just allow me get the food. Let's get exercise.
SPEAKER_06Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us on this episode of Autism Goes to College, the podcast for students on the spectrum and for everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge. So here are the hacks, insights, and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a small group of self-advocates. We're all in college or recently graduated, and you can do this too.
SPEAKER_04Hey everyone, thanks for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. I'm Catherine O'Brien, and I have just started working on my PhD in special education at University of California Riverside. I started my college career at Bowdoin in Maine, which was a wonderful experience for me. After working for a few years, I went back for a master's degree at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. There, I focused on science teaching with an equity focus in urban schools. Most recently, I spent five years teaching at Milestone Day School, where I also led the Technology Committee and coordinated LGBTQ inclusion. Then, last fall, my own life experiences as a student on the spectrum and my teaching experiences led me to apply for the program I am in now, which will focus on autistic adolescence with a goal of improving outcomes in our transitions to adulthood, including both to college and to the many other paths we take in life. A little bit about this podcast and our project. Autism Goes to College began as a documentary film, following five college students on the spectrum as they navigated college life. Eric Lynn Thorst directed the film, and it premiered at the Newport Beach Film Festival in 2019, and was also selected to screen at South by Southwest EDU in 2020, which of course happened online. At the end of this episode, I'll give you some details about where you can see the film today, and it's all at our website, autismgoes to college.org. So, with screenings limited since the pandemic began, the team wanted to open up the conversation and created this podcast. The first five episodes featured the stars of the film talking in more depth about their college experiences and what they are up to now. And since then, we've talked to students on the spectrum all over the map, sharing all kinds of experiences, working towards degrees and certificates around the country, plus a college counselor, parent perspectives, and admissions officers. Every month we drop a new episode. Here's what's also new there's a resource center on our website with dozens of outtakes of important stuff that didn't quite make it into the film, all of the podcast episodes, and blogs from experts and from student advisors from the film. Fun fact this project was recognized as the best of the internet in 2022 by the Webby Awards Anthem Awards, winning gold for diversity, equity, and inclusion. And we keep making it better. This podcast is here for us to share and open up the conversation and include more insights from self-advocates on the spectrum. Same with the Resource Center. So reach out if you'd like to get involved or have ideas for us. Let us know what would make it more meaningful and valuable, or what you'd like to contribute. And thanks for listening. We do hope to hear from you. Today's episode of Autism Goes to College: A Visit with Professor Aubrey Mint. If you've seen the film, you know Aubrey. He teaches the animation class at Cal State Long Beach that Jonathan takes. And in that movie, you see them working together. Aubrey talks about what professors in his position do know and what they don't naturally get told about working with students on the spectrum and about how he accommodates Jonathan's workflow, style, and presence in his class. Today, Aubrey continues to teach animation students at Cal State Long Beach. And we're gonna talk about how he's seen that university stretch, grow, and change its understanding of how to serve students on the spectrum since the film was made. Thank you so much for joining us, Aubrey.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_04Let's catch up a little bit for people who have seen the documentary and for people who haven't. It was filmed in 2018, almost five years ago now. At that time, you told us that many of your colleagues knew they had students on the spectrum in their classroom, but there wasn't much formal acknowledgement of autism from the administration. Can you describe the type of information or training that's available to faculty at Cal State Long Beach now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So since that time, actually, we have a new director of the Disabled Student Services, which is called the Bob Murphy Access Center. And the new director's name is Mary Nguyen. And they have done an incredible job reframing the conversation and really thinking about better training for faculty that are asking for it, but also services for the students to get them sort of more accustomed to campus life and being able to speak up. They have a great program called Summer Life at the Beach, which the prime directive is to really get students accustomed to what life is like on campus. And so it's basically just after they're admitted to campus, they have this kind of early transition period during the summer where they come to campus, they live on campus, they get to know each other, other students on the spectrum or from disabled student services, and they understand like the resources that are available to them, and they get comfortable, they talk about time management, uh developing organizational skills. So it's a great way just to kind of say, okay, here's our community, here's the services we have. Some of the things they talk about is like how to cook and you know, how to use Tupperware and saran wrap. And uh it's pretty amazing because um at the end they actually cook a meal for their families at the end of the summer. So it's like also transitioning them off campus eventually so they can, you know, people can live on their own. And the other thing that they told me that they are doing now is working directly with the university police department. In the past, it has been kind of a difficult dialogue when we have an instance on campus that is focused on you know health and wellness, but the police officers weren't always trained in terms of how to deal with that. So sometimes it could be a little aggressive or raising the stress levels. So now they're working with social workers on these specific calls, and that's also something they talk about with the students during this uh summer life.
SPEAKER_04That's helpful. It sounds like there have been some efforts with social work and the university police department. Have you seen uh any efforts directed towards professors about incorporating autism-specific strategies in classrooms or professional development along those lines?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So at the beginning of this year, they offered workshops specifically for this topic for faculty and staff. And I attended them and I thought they were excellent ways to re-acclimate ourselves with the services for the students, but also a forum to be able to ask questions. Like, you know, like I might have said in the film, one of the difficulties is faculty not understanding how to have these conversations. And while I'll say it has gotten better as I understand it, more faculty are, you know, the stigma is going down and the barriers are going down for students, you know, st faculty are now able to kind of feel more comfortable having these conversations. It is still an issue as I understand it, that faculty are, they see these are services that um are there for the students. So they'll their first reaction is, let's, you know, I've I've just found out or I'm having a challenge with a student on the spectrum, um, and they'll immediately just send them to Bob Murphy Access Center. But what Bob Murphy Access Center wants us to do is actually wait, let's pause, have a conversation first, and learn about the student a little more, learn about how to have more dialogue, and you know, before you just send people off, you know, let's let's get to know each other and uh have those conversations. So I think that's still a little bit slow, but you know, at least they've pinpointed it. That's that's an issue.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you said something in the film that gets a lot of attention and resonates with a lot of people, um, which is that Cal State Long Beach is a really big campus with 34,000 students uh with incredible diversity. And so students on the spectrum can feel welcome because the students at that school have such a range of stories and lived experiences. Do you think that's still true today? Is it even more true?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's more true. I love our campus and I love the community, and I think people are more and more open. You know, as I mentioned, as the stigma goes down and the barriers go down, people are talking about it more. You know, I think thinking back to when Jonathan was in the class and remembering like when the camera crew came to campus, you know, it dawned on the rest of the students, right? Of course, you know, this is about Jonathan and, you know, the experience he has with autism. I don't know, maybe, maybe uh on their own people broached the subject, but we it wasn't like talked about amongst each other. Whereas after the camera crew came, we all talked about it a lot more. And you know, students were able to share with Jonathan their own experiences. But I think it doesn't even need prompting anymore. I feel like we are, as a culture, we are becoming so much more open to not just students on the spectrum, but students with different identities and genders, and it's so accepted and welcomed that it feels so safe here on campus, which I love. I will say we have over 600 students on campus that self-report their disability, and even more that claim a secondary disability, and that number continues to grow, especially post-pandemic or during the pandemic, and many of them gravitate towards the arts. So, you know, I would just as a general statement say if you are a student on the spectrum or neurodiverse, um, you are in good in great company here.
SPEAKER_04So you mentioned that the resource center offered optional trainings. How would you describe the overall awareness level among the professoriate and the conversation level between faculty around students on the spectrum? Like, is there more explicit conversation? Are there more resources for faculty who can't make it to the trainings? Like, is the awareness going up?
SPEAKER_01That's a good question. I don't know how we could gauge it, but um, certainly amongst colleagues, we'll have conversations, whether it be hallway conversations or you know, certainly in the animation program that I work in, we talk quite regularly, and this topic will come up. I know that the Bob Murphy Access Center is very accessible to all, and they're very welcoming, and they always tell us and they they'll show up at our meetings, say once a year, and they'll remind us that faculty are welcome to drop in and call, you know, email, ask questions. So I I think it I think my sense is it's happening. I just I don't have the data to back it up, but yeah, I would say it's happening.
SPEAKER_04You said there are conversations going on in your department. When those conversations are happening, what do professors seem to want to know most? What are things that they're struggling with or strategies you've offered to them uh when when these conversations are happening? I'm curious about the details.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell I think, you know, a couple things come to mind. Like it used to be here's a student in my class. They won't suggest that they're on the spectrum, but they'll say they're they're acting out or they'll speaking at a turn, and I don't know how to deal with them. So, you know, my first conversation would be, well, let's talk to them or let's talk about it and figure out what's going on. And then it will eventually lead to, well, has this student um self-reported any disability? And if that's the case, then do they have accommodations? And and if so, or if they haven't asked for them, like so that's the second thing is sometimes we're not finding out about students self-reporting or any accommodations. And that the onus is fully on the student, right? So if they don't self-report, and if they don't ask for accommodations, then the faculty won't know. And and that continues to happen. Like it it feels like, you know, I don't know what the rub is there or if it's difficult for students to come out and discuss it.
SPEAKER_04So it sounds like there's a bit of a gap still where if you suspect that a student might be struggling, but for whatever reason they haven't self-identified, they kind of fall into this legal gray area where you want to respect their privacy, but you also want to support them.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, I think that's exactly right. That uh you don't want to make assumptions, you don't want to ask someone before they tell you. So you're right. It's this it's this strange gray area where, you know, on one hand, maybe the faculty are afraid to ask. On the other hand, maybe they have, you know, 23 other students, so they feel if the student's not going to speak up, I'm not gonna speak up for them. But, you know, maybe in my experience, I feel like if I'll notice a continued issue in class, you know, I'll do the same I do with every other student. I'll meet with them one-on-one and I'll say, hey, I noticed that either you haven't been attending, or you've been late, or you've been missing parts of my lectures because it's not clear in your assignments that you're getting it. And more times than not, that's when a student will self-report to me directly. And that's when I can then, you know, the the gate's been opened so I can step through the door and say, okay, great. Here's the Bob Murphy Access Center. Have you used them? Here's some great resources, and that's where the conversation starts going. But it also gives me an appreciation for the student and you know, uh more sensitivity to understand what they're going through. And, you know, I think that's a great first step. And I think that's what like Bob Murphy Access Center wants us all to do. It's like start with that conversation, figure out who your students are, and they're not just a number, you know, it's it's an actual person going through an actual experience.
SPEAKER_04Besides from that relational approach of really listening to the individual, what do you see working well for students on uh the autism spectrum? Are there particular things that help? Um, and also do you think it's necessary to disclose?
SPEAKER_01I think it's necessary, you know. I I think for some of the reasons I just stated, it's like if we get to know each other, you know, regardless of the challenges, it'll give us like a deeper understanding of what we're all going through and allow us to think about accommodations that we would like to offer. But also it's probably good for, you know, for the student, I'd imagine, to get that part off the chest and be able to say, okay, that's not you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe it would be if you're setting your own barrier, it would it would it would like build to a point where it's preventing you from doing several other things because you feel like if I said this, all these things would go wrong, but once you break through that barrier, does it does it alleviate you to then go the next step? I don't know. That's kind of a a quick question back to you.
SPEAKER_04Fair. I mean, I think you cannot help what you cannot understand. And one of the things that I have worked hard on as an educator who is also neurodivergent myself is helping students find ways to make their experience reportable and intelligible to non-autistic people that are trying to help them, and also helping those non-autistic individuals understand why there's a breakdown in communication or what might be going on with a sensory issue or with like a pre-existing trauma barrier or other things that might be happening that are preventing effective communication from occurring. So I think you're completely right about how important diagnosis can be, especially if there are struggles. I do think that if somebody is really regulated and kind of knows themselves, that you can keep your diagnosis pretty low-key and succeed anyway. But the second we start to need help, we also need to be vulnerable to be supported effectively, in my experience. I think that might be what you're getting at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, exactly. You know, while you were talking, it made me think when you said that diagnosis will help all around. Um, there's a animation director named Jorge Guterres. I don't know if you know that name, but he directed The Book of Life and Maya in the Three, he's at Netflix, and he he has an autistic son, but he was diagnosed later in life, like not too long ago. I think it was within the last ten years. And is my understanding of it, it it allowed him to understand his own, you know, methodologies better and you know how he thinks and processes, and you know, he's like come out as an autistic, you know, director or on the spectrum. So I don't know, it just it made me realize this isn't obviously just a student issue, this is something that many of us deal with and uh awareness can be incredibly helpful.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. Can you talk more about um the student ability services? Uh do you think they understand what works well in real life outside the classroom and are they evolving there?
SPEAKER_01You know, as I mentioned before, I think the as the stigma has gone down and the barriers have gone down, you know, I also mentioned that we have over 600 students at self-report have self-reporting, and that number's up from where it used to be. So I think what that tells us is students feel more comfortable self-reporting. So that also tells me that our services and awareness is working and students are being reached, and you know, the things like the summer beach life, um, which is not at the beach, but it's at Cal State Long Beach. Um I think it's all working, you know. I think, and along with the conversations we're having and the faculty resources, I think it's all working in that more students are reporting. So the one difficulty I'm also hearing about is that students are since the pandemic, students are refusing to meet counselors in person, and many of them are staying behind their screens at home or on Zoom. And, you know, beyond just students on the spectrum, I'm noticing it's a fear that a lot of people are having and continuing to have after lockdown. And you know, anxiety has uh escalated, and this is something that I think we all have to deal with. Like, how are we coming back to campus? And how are we doing it in a way that feels is allowing people to feel safe and it's it's a difficult thing that, you know, I don't think enough of us are talking about.
SPEAKER_04That makes a lot of sense. I I'm wondering if you've noticed approaches in the classroom that can make things harder for autistic students, and you have any tips on things to not do or what to avoid.
SPEAKER_01Well, ignoring it. Ignoring people or ignoring Or assuming everyone learns the same and at the same rate and in the same way. Um, one of the best lessons I had as a faculty, I can't tell if this student was on the spectrum or not, but I was explaining how to something very technical, was you how to export a movie into software. And this was like 20 years ago. And I finished my explanation, and the student looked at me and said, I don't understand. And so I said it again. And then this after I finished, and it was like, you know, like a five-minute, 10-minute explanation. And after I said it again, the student looked at me again right in the eyes and said, I heard what you said the first time, but I still don't understand it. And it taught me a very valuable lesson as a professor that I have to learn to explain things in a way that's going to reach not just one student, but my 25 students in the classroom. And sometimes that explanation may be have need to have 25 variations, right? So, you know, that applies here that, you know, if a faculty is having an issue with their student, not to assume that they're going to understand it just because the student beside them understands. And that's kind of our main objective is to make this in digestible format so that students can all learn. And we all learn in different ways and they all learn in different ways. So that would be my big thing. It's like learn how to explain, learn how to talk, learn how to have these conversations, not be scared of these conversations, and uh just be real. Like I think everyone wants us to be authentic and real. That's what you know, we're training students to do in art at least, how to be themselves and how to f form their identity. And surely we should be able to do that as faculty as well.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Do you have any advice for professors who find themselves in the position of thinking that a student might be autistic but would like to respect their privacy, but would still like to make their classroom friendly? What can you do to help a student who isn't self-disclosing?
SPEAKER_01I think um giving, you know, your email and being very specific about office hours so that if a student doesn't feel comfortable talking in front of a class, they have the ability to meet with you one-on-one or another way, like maybe you have an option for meeting in person, but you also have an option for meeting online, because you know, as disabled student services here mentioned, a lot of students are more comfortable behind the screen now. That's what comes to mind.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Institutionally, zooming back out, what do you think are the most pressing next steps uh to enhance success for autistic students? What do you see uh being the the goals for the future?
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I actually had this exact question with our um uh disabled student services, and they are talking about more peer mentors, which I think is a wonderful idea. They're talking about mentors that come from neurodiverse communities or experiences, and perhaps they're alumni as well, or they're in the workforce, and these particular people would command respect since they've gone through this before and experienced it, or maybe with their families. So they're hoping to develop this kind of body of people, communities, which I think is a wonderful idea. I just think like as many opportunities as possible, more awareness, more training. You know, I just hope people can just continue to feel more comfortable and have these conversations. And I'd, you know, I'd love to be able to find ways to make it more comfortable on campus for people. So, you know, as a faculty, it is difficult, I'll I'll say, teaching what I teach. It's more effective in in person. And on Zoom, you have the difficulty of a lot of time we don't see our students because they're it's a black and white, you know, it's a white name with a black box. And and that could be for several reasons anxiety or they don't want us to see their room or their space or their families there, you know, there's several different options there. So it's just having the ability to make contact with students in the eyes and talk to them one-on-one. Nothing beats that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Are there resources that you've encountered for professors that might be online or not involving attending an in-person training that you know might only be offered at a certain time and might conflict with another obligation? Like, what else is out there for faculty who can't attend the training that you did but still want to improve their practice here?
SPEAKER_01Well, there's this wonderful documentary called Autism Goes to College.
SPEAKER_04They should absolutely watch that.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I highly recommend to all people. I'm not kidding, because it it is such an amazing resource. Like, and it continues to be with the podcasts you're all doing and the videos that are online, and it's it really just is such a wealth of information. So I would absolutely recommend that. There is another group called BRIC, um, and it stands for Break, Reinvent, Innovate, Change. And this is a group of people that are um focusing on uh DEIA, diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility. And they have a summit once a year, and they have events, and it's really just having conversations with people about these and other topics surrounding DEIA that are incredibly engaging and informative and lets us know it's focused around the entertainment industry, but you know, it it reminds us that these issues are prevalent and important, and we need to discuss and continue to find solutions to make it easier for all of us.
SPEAKER_04That's really fantastic. So, Professor Ofrey Mintz, thank you so much for uh joining me and being on the podcast. I really appreciated getting to speak to you as somebody who is going to be instructing uh as a graduate student. Um I liked the insights you shared, and I'm glad you have the opportunity to teach at Cal State Long Beach. It sounds like your students are really lucky to have you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm I'm lucky to be here. I've been here 16 years and uh I've really loved every minute of it. I'm not just saying that. It's just it feels like a home. And um no, thanks for giving me the opportunity to share my experience and ask you questions.
SPEAKER_04So that is our show for today. Thank you so much for listening, for following us on Instagram and Facebook, and thank you especially for adding your reviews on Apple Podcast. Our show is very specifically for students on the spectrum navigating college, and we appreciate your appreciation for Autism Goes to College. Now, as promised from the top, here are the ways to see the film. The documentary film Autism Goes to College is currently available through many channels, but the easiest way to see it today is to rent it on Vimeo On Demand, which you can access from your Apple TV or most other smart TVs by going to the Vimeo On Demand app. You can find a link on our website at www.autismgoes to college.org. The film is also available for educational use and for live and hybrid screening events. All the relevant info and links can be found on our website. Don't forget, please follow us on Instagram to stay current and consider joining our vibrant community on Facebook. Thank you for listening.
SPEAKER_06Hey, thanks for listening to Autism Goes to College. We'd love to hear from you about what you'd like to hear more about. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at Autism GoesToCollege. Hit us up with your thoughts. Tell us what's going on in your campus and in your college life. To see the documentary film or set up a screening, check us out on our website at autismgoes to college.org.